One morning last year as a mom was driving home from the gym, her child called and told her some news that would change their lives, their relationship, and reverberate through their extended family for months (perhaps years) to come: they'd made the decision to transition into a female.
In this raw, revealing interview, this mom discusses:
This is a story of unconditional love for a child; of a mother voicing her needs and establishing her own boundaries; of discovery--not just about someone else but about yourself.
Want to know more about families experiencing transition?
Want to know more about The Experience Podcast?
One morning last year as a mom was driving home from the gym, her child called and told her some news that would change their lives, their relationship, and reverberate through their extended family for months (perhaps years) to come: they'd made the decision to transition into a female.
In this raw, revealing interview, this mom discusses:
This is a story of unconditional love for a child; of a mother voicing her needs and establishing her own boundaries; of discovery--not just about someone else but about yourself.
Want to know more about families experiencing transition?
Want to know more about The Experience Podcast?
Anonymous 0:00
The biggest takeaway for me is to be less rigid and more flexible, and just trying to be understanding of everyone's situation and that we can't really judge any one person by their looks or how they present because we don't know what they're experiencing inside. And for me not having my daughter alive is not an option. So that's been the driving force.
Elizabeth 0:32
This mom was initially shocked when her son told her he wanted to transition to become a female. But as she learned more about her child's internal life, her own approach began to change. I'm Elizabeth Pearson Garr. And on this episode of The Experience podcast, we get a really raw revealing look inside one family's experience as their child begins transitioning. At the request of my guest, I'm not sharing her name, but as you'll see, she shares a lot in this conversation.
Thank you for being here on my podcast, especially because this is a very personal topic to discuss. I really appreciate you coming on to talk about it.
Anonymous 1:15
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And I appreciate just the opportunity to talk with you.
Elizabeth 1:21
Can you just fill me in on the situation with your family? At what age did your child decide to tell you that he was going to transition to a female?
Anonymous 1:33
Yeah, so to give a little backstory, my son, which he was male at birth, he came out as gay around junior year of high school. So I think that we had already kind of had an idea, he was a little more feminine and his mannerisms. He didn't necessarily want to play with other like high school boys, he had a lot of girls coming over, they baked a lot. And so you know, we had some idea that he was, I don't want to say different, but I guess just his orientation, like, we were comfortable with him coming out being gay. And so through high school, and then went to college, he had a few boyfriends. And so we got really like comfortable with meeting them and having them into our family. I think it was last year. And he is 25. Now, so he's 24, he asked to kind of talk to me about something. So at this point, I'm thinking to myself, well, you know, maybe he's gonna move, or maybe he's broken up with his boyfriend, I didn't really understand or expect that the next big transition in his life would be that he was unhappy with his gender. And so I remember just driving home from the gym and thinking, I was really surprised and shocked when he told me that he had been feeling these emotions for some time about not being comfortable as being identified as a male. And as I listened to him, I found that it was really great that he was able to express that on the phone, I feel like it took away my expressions, or just my feelings, it really just was about hearing his feelings and how he had been processing this for quite some time. He did say that, through his whole life, he had wondered about what it would be like to be a woman, but he never thought it would be a possibility. And so as I was listening to his words, I was really trying to understand what maybe that would feel like as a parent, but also as a person. And so I think that helped me to just kind of put words to my feelings, and also to be kind of open minded with him.
Elizabeth 3:58
Do you remember what your reaction was to him at that time?
Anonymous 4:03
Yeah, I was really shocked and surprised. And I didn't say anything. And I think had we been in person, it would have been different. But being on the phone driving in the car, it was really easy to just stay quiet.
Elizabeth 4:17
And that was, that was good. You think in retrospect?
Anonymous 4:20
I think for myself, it was really good, because it allowed me to process without just having a knee jerk reaction or to say something I couldn't take back. So I really felt like, I'm glad it happened that way.
Elizabeth 4:33
And then what were the next steps? Did he talk to your husband? Or do you share it with your husband and the rest of your family?
Anonymous 4:41
Yeah, that's interesting that you say that my daughters so I have two other daughters younger and they already knew and they were very supportive. They congratulated him on coming out and being brave and to make the transition because it's a hard decision and my husband did not know, and the conclusion was when I got home with my son was that he was going to have a separate conversation with my husband, but he kind of wanted to break the ice with my husband and with me kind of introducing the idea. So I did get home and I was able to tell him, but my husband comes from a culture where the firstborn son is so important, the responsibility of a man to pass on the next generation of, of having a son, and with our eldest son being the only son in our family, that was a real blow for my husband. And I actually really appreciated my son's insight in actually saying, like, Mom, I think you would do a better job telling dad first so he could have time to process. And from his reaction, it was really good that my son did not tell my husband. But I will say this, I do have some regret in not having my son tell my husband, because I feel like it started the point off where I would be the in-between person between them, versus the direct communication, and the working it out, whatever that looked like. So I do have some regret for breaking the news to my husband.
Elizabeth 6:16
Because it sounds like your husband didn't take it quite as smoothly, maybe as you did initially?
Anonymous 6:23
Yeah, and it's been almost a year and my, my husband definitely did not take it smoothly at all. He questioned a lot of our parenting more importantly, my parenting because I stayed home. He questioned maybe the environment, maybe the college that our son attended, he started questioning a lot of external factors that could have played a role in his eyes in determining this. He also had a lot of anger and rage and frustration that why can't you just be satisfied with being born a male. And he felt like maybe this was a choice that my son was trying on a different gender just because that's the thing to do. So he didn't find it as something as Whoa, maybe our son is really unhappy with identifying as a male, and that he really is wanting to explore what it feels like or to feel accepted for the gender that you want to be or that you resonate with.
Elizabeth 7:30
I think your husband's reaction is actually a feeling that a lot of people have, they don't understand, I think people who have not been in that body that feels like you're in the wrong gender, really don't understand. Is this something you're just trying on? Because it seems like it's culturally okay now, you know, is this just a phase you're going through? Like, I think that there is just a lot of confusion, unknown misunderstanding around this whole issue. And what I find fascinating is, so much of it is generational. I feel like the younger generation is just sort of so accepting of this whole issue. But in general, I don't think your husband's reaction is highly unusual for a lot of people.
Anonymous 9:15
Yeah, yeah. And you bring up a lot of good points, I think the first real point that is hard is that in order to really transition from, in his case, to becoming a female, it takes so much time and effort and energy and it's informing your work, coming up with a name, asking people to use pronouns. We joined a support group, and a lot of the different parents in there, the whole idea behind just it being like for fun or like, oh, let's try a different hat on the steps that you have to go through just to make it happen is so hard. The other issue is a lot of these kids are suffering from suicidal ideation and depression. And so, for me, I mean I'd rather my child not be suicidal or depressed. And so trying on a different hat is what she's doing, then please do it. But, I think what's important also know is that when you transition, it's not just happening overnight, you know, the name change can happen overnight, and the pronoun use, but you're still being mis-identified all the time, from family friends, and then the hormones take a long time for up to a year. And then even if you want surgery, it takes longer, it's a minimum of a year, and then lots of therapy. In order for insurance to cover it, you have to be diagnosed actually, with gender dysphoria. So I feel like while maybe it can be considered something they're trying on in order to actually transition and become the gender that you're identifying with, it takes so many years, and can take up to five years. And so you really feel like through that process, you have to really be sure that that's what you want.
Elizabeth 11:01
There's so much to unpack here. Like you said, it's not just the kind of thing that a person just wakes up and says, Oh, I think I'll just do this now. And obviously, your son, now your daughter didn't just one day say I think I'm going to tell this to mom, obviously had already told your daughters about it. This had been many months, years, probably, in the making thinking about this. I mean, there's a lot that goes on for that individual, inside a lot of internal reckoning, leading up to this moment of sharing it with the family. And then like you say, once that happens, there's a whole lot I mean, you just mentioned a whole bunch of things of therapy, hormone surgeries, and all all sorts of things. So can you go into some of that?
Anonymous 11:47
Yeah, so the new name, the pronouns, you know, they have their own support system counseling for our daughter, she now has been doing therapy. So she did have the suicidal thoughts and the depression, which kind of is how it all started for her. One day, she just couldn't take it anymore of just deciding, I cannot force myself to be a male any longer.
Elizabeth 12:14
So sorry. Boy, that’s so heavy.
Anonymous 12:17
Yeah, no, thank you, I'm happy that she got help and that she knew to not jeopardize her life. And I think as a parent, once you hear that information, as a mom, your heart just breaks like whoa, you know, this is really a big deal. So it helped me to transition my shock and feeling surprised and these feelings of questioning to oh, let's just support her, let's figure out how we can best help her. And so that helped me transition with her. And so going back to after you get a counselor, and you've been diagnosed with this gender dysphoria, you start taking antidepressants, or some type of relief to feel better. And then she started exploring, really, could this be a possibility for her? And what did it look like. She was working, and so what are the steps there? And so coming up with a name and an email that states my names and pronouns, now, how do I present that? I think, through what I've seen, what I've talked to, and what I've heard is that, you know, it's becoming more accepted and very diverse in the sense that being a transgender woman, which is how she is referred to, because she still has the male, she's still assigned male, but wants to identify as a female, it's becoming more common, companies are actually becoming more diverse and accepting. So for her, it was just an email out. But then after that, it's the family. And can you call me by this new name, and here are my new pronouns. And I think you said something earlier that really caught my attention, and I do think it's generational. I know in our family, the older generations, so my husband's parents, for instance, are not accepting at all. And so it's interesting to see that the younger generation has been very accepting, the working generation has been very accepting, but the older generation is actually where we see all the mis-identification as gender identities, and then just not really respecting those boundaries and how they want to be referred to as.
Elizabeth 14:28
Yeah, I've heard that story again, from someone else I know. Another family where a teenage girl began identifying as a boy and the grandmother refused to call her by her new boy name. And the mom said, No, you may not keep calling her her girl name. You may not this is heightened levels of suicide and all that this is not okay. And so the grandma finally agreed I will just call her honey. She couldn't bring herself to call her the boy name. In fact, she said, I'll call her honey. That was as far as she could go. Yeah.
Anonymous 15:05
And I love how you know that parents really advocated for their child, I think that's the biggest thing I'm learning is just not assuming what my child needs but asking, How can I support you? What is it that you'd like me to do? And that brings up another good point of just being out in public with my daughter, she gets misidentified and standing there. I remember the first time we went to a massage together, and they kept saying, well, that's so nice of your son to pay for you. And I was like, my daughter. Oh, that's so nice of your son. And it was just this really awkward transition. And I could just see on my daughter's face, how uncomfortable she was. And I was uncomfortable with the continuous confrontation of it. And so I finally asked her after like, what is it that I could do for you? Like, is it the continuous saying, no, please, it's the daughter, not son. And just asking how I could help was so relieving, and so comforting to my daughter. And so that's the other real big picture, I think, is just meeting your child where they are in the process. And just trying to support them, how they want you to support them, has been really beneficial for me.
Elizabeth 16:17
What is more of the process? So you'd mentioned therapies and hormones, and then potential surgery, I guess different individuals can choose to have surgery if they would like to or not, those are huge decisions to make, surgery is obviously invasive, and changes things permanently. So is that something that you're confronting with your child?
Anonymous 16:40
Yeah, yeah, so the hormone therapy and hair removal is like the first step. They're just trying to stop the testosterone and increase the estrogen. And then after that, there's a one year period and what you are doing counseling and hormones, and then after that, you can see a specialist to then talk about the surgery that you want to do. And in our case, for my daughter, for instance, she is looking at doing facial surgery to just try to look less masculine. And so at that year mark is when they'll start talking about it and planning for it. And then also speech therapy. So learning how to not have the deep voice and more of a feminine approach. So she's done that, and then also fertility. So there's an option to you know, maybe preserve your firm if you choose to. So yeah, there's a lot of steps and I'm still learning, I'm nowhere near knowing everything and, and I think also with my daughter not living at home, you know, and being 25, and working and living in a different city, you know, we get to connect once a week, but it really is her experience, and I'm just trying to from a distance support her and whatever I can. I think there's a lot more that she's probably gone through and has had to deal with. I think the other thing for me in particular, is the safety issue of just transgender people are just targeted all the time for hate crimes. So I worry about that as well. I think that's my biggest concern with the whole transitioning is just being safe, and how we could support her to make sure she's safe.
Elizabeth 18:23
What are some ways that you feel like a parent could support their kid other than just love and emotional support?
Anonymous 18:31
You know, honestly, when I really break it down, I think the biggest hurdle to this whole thing is the accepting and understanding part, I think that the emotional part is the hardest part of this whole process. Because I think a lot of parents, at least on the support groups that I've joined, and the different parents I've talked to, a lot of them don't necessarily want to support their children, and a lot of kids get disowned. So the biggest hope that they have is the emotional support of just accepting them for who they are not identifying with a gender. I'm not making gender such a big issue and then just loving and supporting them. I think for us, like I have made a few mistakes in not correctively using pronouns. It's so hard after the older your child is not to make an excuse at all, but a lot of times it's like oh, your brother and you're like, oh, right, you don't have a brother, it's your sister now and using the correct pronouns. I think for my daughter in particular, I think it's being aware of your surroundings, making sure she's living in a very supportive place is liberal. And then just being aware of people around you and making sure you're not alone. And so you know, you've done a lot of talks about that and, you know, self-defense and just trying to be careful of the physical thing. I think also though, it's really important to also understand the moods because as you said earlier, suicide is such a huge risk factor in this population. I mean, they're dealing with so many different issues. And then on top of that, the acceptance of like their loved ones who they've been identified as a certain way for so long, and will they still love me? Is there that unconditional love? And then when I don't get that, if I get a conditional love, how's it going to affect me? And a lot of these kids, I think making sure they have a therapist thing, just the well being, the mental health well being.
Elizabeth 20:29
When you talk about conditional love, you know, and your support groups and things that you've read, is it some parents feeling like, wait, but I had, for example, a little girl, and I thought I would always raise a little girl, and now she's telling me that she's a little boy, or obviously vice versa? Is it something like that? That's often the hardest thing to wrap your head around as the parent like, this isn't what I imagined my child would be, this isn't how I imagined life would be for this person? Or do you think more of it is that safety component like life is harder for a transgender person? What have you learned in your experience?
Anonymous 21:10
Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I think, for me, in particular, it's the safety and the, is my child going to have the same opportunities like in employment? Are they going to have the same type of life? Are they going to find a partner? Because the relationships dating is hard enough? Are you going to have children one day, or if that's even something you want to do? For me personally, that's it. I know, for my husband, and you know, I can't really speak for him. But I think it's more just that, yes, I had a son, and I don't want a daughter, I want a son. And so for him, it's more gender related. And I think it's cultural. I don't think that it's necessarily that a son or a daughter is better. It's just that in his culture, it's this ingrained process that you provide a son to keep the family name going. And I wondered too, like, I think about this a lot is that if we had more boys in our family, would it matter as much, but because it's our eldest son, and we only have girls that, if that would change his mind at all?
Elizabeth 22:17
I think it's interesting about gender, and just how we do. I don't know if this is even a word, but sort of genderize our children so much, you know, baby showers are pink and light blue. And we do so much of this. Maybe not as much in this newer generation coming up? I don't know, I guess we'll see. But I feel like when I was having my kids, it was just so much about Is it a girl? Is it a boy, and just tons of pink everywhere since I was having a girl each time, and just a lot of assumptions about what they would be like and what their interests would be and what they would want to do and what they would not want to do because of that. And it was interesting, because my husband loves sports. And I remember asking him when we found out that we're going to have a second girl, you seem a little disappointed. And he said, I just always thought I'd have a boy. And I said, Okay, he's one of two boys. And, and I said, Yeah, and what else about that? And he said, Well, I guess I always just thought I'd play ball with my boy. And I said, Well, you could maybe play ball with your girl. And he said, I know, I know. It's just this image that I have. And, and I said, Well, you could have a boy who would love you know, Dungeons and Dragons or something like you never know what the kid is going to be. And then of course, our oldest daughter loves basketball. So I was like, you look, you got your ball playing kid, it's just turned out as a girl. So you never know what you're gonna get. But we do sort of genderize our kids from such a young age, and then they show us who they're going to be.
Anonymous 23:47
That's a good point about how like, not only do we put such an emphasis on gender, but also like, this whole what are they gonna be like? Are they gonna have good jobs? Are they gonna get married, are they gonna have families? But yeah, you know, I've spent a lot of time reflecting off why we do that. And like, what does it matter to be a boy or girl? Or why do we even identify as that, the boy you know, blue and and then there's this whole behavior behind being a boy right? Like, you can't cry, man up. And we do a lot of like behavioral expectations based off their gender as well. And so I think that gives everybody mixed messages. So if you are a little more feminine being a boy, does that mean you're bad? So I know for my son growing up that he did feel that way and it's coming out now that he just never felt right because he was more sensitive. He had more feminine traits and he didn't really know how to make sense of that when society around him was saying, no, no, go playful ways. Go play in the dirt. Play with your cars, stop crying.
Elizabeth 24:52
So does your oldest daughter now say that she felt when she was growing up, she had tinges of wondering a lot what it would be like to be a girl from a young age?
Anonymous 25:04
Yeah. When I look back now, like she used to get into my lipstick, my high heels, my nail polish, and we always thought, wow, you know, she has a sister, I didn't think anything of it, my husband, he worked a lot. So it wasn't that he really would have a problem with it. And I was just thought, well, you know, I don't mind if he dresses up, I don't care, you know. And then throughout school, he was a very kind of sensitive soul. He wasn't aggressive, he didn't always necessarily play with cars or rocks or you know want to get dirty, which is fine. And I've fostered whatever. But I think at some point, and I think it was middle and high school, there's some expectation that if you don't hang out with the guys that you're a little bit awkward or weird. So I remember him sharing with me multiple times that people just thought he was like a computer nerd, because he would stay in the computer lab a lot. And what comes out now is mainly it was just to avoid being teased, or that if he hung out with girls, and he was weird, and so he did a lot of like, self isolation, just to handle the pressures he's receiving.
Elizabeth 26:15
Is there something about this experience that has brought the two of you closer, or it certainly brought out new dimensions of your relationship I'm sure, because you've explored areas that you've never have before you've had conversations that you wouldn't have had otherwise?
Anonymous 26:33
Yeah, you know, I think that has been probably another thing I've really reflected on is just the expectation that your kids grew up, and that you're best friends and you love your adult children all the time, there's no conflict is like, Yay, you know, we have a great relationship.
Elizabeth 26:50
Sounds like utopia.
Anonymous 26:53
They're really eye opening and humbling. I think just surviving, like as parents, we just try to survive parenting. And it's really hard if they don't share during the survival years to really know exactly what's going on. So, I think what's come out of it now is a lot of processing, a lot of reflecting and a lot of healing on things that happen that necessarily aren't anyone's fault, per se, but for better word, maybe lack of communication, or just awareness of knowing both my part and my child's part. Honestly, if she would have came out at a much earlier age, it's just a little different. Because in your, you're still responsible for this child, so you're more involved in the process. And because she internalized it for so many years, and then felt comfortable coming out, there's a lot of damage that had been done that you have to kind of unpack and get to the meat of it. The other thing that really came out for me was that like I had said in the very beginning of just that transition of her telling me and not me and my husband together kind of created a dynamic that I had to finally sort out and pull away. And so had, she came to both of us, and we each had our own reaction separately, but together in the same conversation would have been easier. Because I had to find a way to just kind of say, Look, I am supportive, I love you, I'm here for you. And I will do whatever it takes. But I can't change how other family members are feeling. Which then created a dynamic of like, but why not? Why can't you change them because I was the middle person. So it made our relationship harder and a lot more rocky for a lot longer. I think we're finally through the mud. And I can see almost the rainbow but not yet. And I think it's just a work in progress. Each week, I'm learning something new about her, about me, how we are together, how our relationship can get stronger. And I think still in the learning curve for sure.
Elizabeth 28:59
It sounds challenging, because she's an adult, and yet she still is relying on you or at least sharing with you. And so like I need you, but I don't need you or I want you but I don't want you It must be hard to parent, an adult child anyway, I haven't been there yet. But then especially when they're going through a major life event.
Anonymous 29:20
Yeah, I think there's a lot of expectations on so many different dynamics. And I think our expectation was that my husband would accept her immediately, maybe after the process of a few weeks, and that hasn't happened. And that has created a lot of friction in our home that's created a lot of friction in my marriage, and it's just created a lot of friction for her. And so, while I've learned that I can't fix the problem, I have learned that I have created a problem by always intervening and making sure that everyone is okay. And so removing myself from that and letting people just kind of work through it has been really challenging. At the end of this, I can almost see the beauty of it all, because we will all grow as people. And hopefully, I mean, I've hoped that we can all come back together and figure this out. And so I will say that getting counseling for each individual has been really helpful. I don't recommend family counseling for this. But each person in our family has a counselor, you know, my husband, me and my daughter, to just kind of process ourselves and see how we're feeling and not having to like always make sure everyone is doing okay.
Elizabeth 30:35
And so your husband is still struggling with this situation?
Anonymous 30:39
He is still struggling, he's making progress, the newest latest thing is that he wants us to be a part of supporting her during her surgery. So I'm we're trying to decide as a family like how we do that, because it's so extensive, massive recovery time, not being able to work or take care of yourself. So we're trying to figure out how we can support her and what that looks like. So my husband definitely is wanting to be more on board with that he really wants to find a solution that works for everyone.
Elizabeth 31:10
How do you feel about that? How do you feel about the whole surgery situation?
Anonymous 31:15
I right now, how do I say this, I think that I'm excited for her to finally be identified the way she wants to be identified with and the surgery is going to provide that for her, I'm really excited that she can have the opportunity. It's a very extensive, expensive surgery. And so I'm just glad that she can do it. Because it's a privilege, I think, to be able to do the surgery. So I'm excited. I'm excited that I can support her through it. I mean, it is, depending on how much she does, how much reconstruction she does, it can be a little bit dangerous, but we haven't met with the doctor, so I think as that gets closer, I'm gonna get a little bit more nervous. But I Overall I'm very excited for her to get the transition she really wants.
Elizabeth 32:03
Does insurance pay for any of this?
Anonymous 32:07
It depends. And I haven't asked her specifically about her insurance. But I know from our support group that a lot of people say if you have the gender dysphoria diagnosis, and you've seen a counselor, and you have had the proper documentation, that parts of it can be covered. I don't know exactly. If there's an age limit. I haven't really asked her the details about that, per se.
Elizabeth 32:33
That's right. I'm sure being an adult, she has her own insurance. Yeah. You mentioned earlier about the fact that she started transitioning older as an adult as opposed to a younger kid, what do you think, are the variables in the situations if an adolescent were to decide to transition versus a young adult?
Anonymous 32:53
So from our support group, there are a few kids that haven't gone through puberty, so they're able to block that in so they don't develop like the deep voice or the face, there's this saying and whether your pass as the appropriate gender, depending on the timeframe in which you transition. So for a younger child, if they can stop it before puberty, from what I understand, they have a higher chance of passing as that gender that they want later on, versus a person that has already gone through puberty and has the pronounced voice and other hair and just, it takes a lot longer to pass as that gender
Elizabeth 33:36
And also your body has developed after puberty.
Anonymous 33:41
Right, so for girls, they do binding and, you know, they bind the chest. So there's a lot of different things. You know, it's so hard because what I hear their struggles are so different than my child struggles, it's like dealing with school and the social aspect, you know, and where do you go to the bathroom? And how do you change for PE and then getting the school to support you. So it sounds like it can be a lot more challenging with the social aspects and emotional. But I think it's just individualized. And also, it's so hard. The whole process is so hard anyway, I think for anybody. I don't think anybody chooses it. I think that when they really are thinking that this is what they need to do, they're really feeling discomfort inside. This is definitely not been an easy road for any kid at any age from what I understand.
Elizabeth 34:32
Do you have any words of wisdom or advice to either parents that are maybe newly confronting this or just general people on the street who need to know more about this situation?
Anonymous 34:47
Yeah, I would say, I think first and foremost is that when your child comes out, they've had time to process it and you haven't. And so using your child as the processing board isn't a great idea and so finding a support group is really important where you can actually share your true feelings. And then on top of that finding, like some type of counseling or some person to bounce your ideas off, because you know, these feelings are real for parents, you aren't given years to process it, you're given weeks, months, a day, depending on how your child tells you. And their demands for using pronouns, and this new name. It's just so many years of build up of not knowing. And so there's mistakes made. And then just asking your child, how you can support them, like, what does it look like for them. And I think the biggest takeaway for me and my family is just knowing that it's okay to communicate, like, Hey, I love you, I support you. But right now, I'm not really comfortable with this. So I'm going to need some time to process but that doesn't mean I don't love you. And so knowing that it's okay to say that to a child and knowing that, they actually would prefer that you'll be honest, and communicate how you feel with love and kindness than to try to dance around or ignore or put under the rug, how you're truly feeling because they can feel it and sense it and for them, they have so many other things as you're trying to feel and sense out, they don't need the ambiguity of how you feel as a parent, they actually just really would like to know the truth. And so that's something I've learned, and just feeling okay with saying that. And then I think also to just knowing that this is such a hard time in their life, and it's not something that is just been thrown at the whim of today, I'm gonna be a male, and tomorrow, I'm going to be a female. And knowing that the process takes so much time to actually complete the full transition, that they're not able to do it overnight, so that there is more thought in it. So when people are transitioning, I think it's just knowing that they're not just tomorrow going to be the different person and gender. So there's a lot that the medical community has done to put in place that you can't just have these surgeries overnight, you have to go through all the steps. So I think that can hopefully educate people to know that it's not just a choice, with immediate satisfaction, it's definitely something they have to live through. And truly feel it.
Elizabeth 37:19
I think that was such an interesting point you made that for the person going through the transition, they've had years probably, of dealing with this, thinking about it, processing it, but for you as the adults, it's a much more sudden revelation. And so it comes at you so quickly. And so you shouldn't expect yourself to be able to be on board with them to be tracking with them at that same level of processing. And so to give yourself that grace, to say, You know what, I still love you. But right now, I need a break, I need to be able to have some time to get a hold of this idea or something. I mean, that's, that's a really great bit of advice.
Anonymous 38:05
Yeah, thank you, I think as moms or parents read says that you love your child, unconditionally. But yeah, when you're hit with something that you're not expecting, or that you're like, Okay, that's out of the realm of what I even thought would happen. I remember for me, it was really difficult because I was like, no, no, I really love my child. So if I say that, then I'm not loving them. But yet, you know, I needed that space to be like, wait a minute, how do I feel about this? And I think too, and I can only speak to my experiences that you know, for our child, she wanted that immediate pronoun use, just immediately, new name, new pronouns, get on board, no time to feel it. And so I learned the hard way.
Elizabeth 38:48
I'm sure it must be such a difficult thing to go through, obviously, for the person. But as a parent, also, everybody goes through challenging things in life, the death of a loved one, or maybe losing a relationship or a hard move or something like that, like, where would you rank this? On the list of challenging things you've had in your life?
Anonymous 39:10
That's a good question. I think because of the different aspects in our family and not having it be all a processing of something we could do together. And this has been a big significant change, and probably very impactful for our family dynamic in our family structure, taught me a lot about myself, as a mom, it's taught me a lot about my marriage. And it's taught me a lot about how to be supportive with something that in the beginning, I'm not sure of. And it's maybe kind of question my core beliefs of like, where in it as a child that I get these norms set up and so it's kind of really questioned a lot of different things and then culturally, so yeah, it's changed my relationship with my in laws, it's changed my relationship with society and judgments about my daughter now, it's changed my relationship, just overall with the lack of understanding and acceptance for trans people. So yeah, I think this has been big impactful for me personally.
Elizabeth 40:22
Yeah, it sounds like it's one of those things that happened. And suddenly, just like a tsunami into your life, like, it just was something you had to start dealing with all the time, right, it was just such an emotional thing that you wanted to support your child. And then there were things with your husband and your extended family. And then there were your own emotions, and on and on and on, it keeps going. Sometimes there are these things in life that require all of us. And I think the way that you've approached it to say, I've learned this, and I've discovered this, and I've uncovered that, that's a beautiful way to look at it, rather than just kind of being buried by the, by the weight of emotion.
Anonymous 41:11
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think just seeing how the younger generation has been so accepting, I think, the biggest takeaway for me is to be less rigid and more flexible, and just trying to be understanding of everyone's situation, and that we can't really judge anyone person by their looks or how they present because we don't know what they're experiencing inside. And for me, not having my daughter alive is not an option. So that's been the driving force of that, yeah, the tsunami hit, but like, the motivating factors, the fact that she was depressed and suicidal, and that's just not an option. So I think it is going to continue on, but we're sorting it out, I feel like now we're finally past the tidal waves, where we're like the reconstruction stage of like, Okay, we're gonna build this foundation back up again, and it's gonna be different, but it's gonna be great.
Elizabeth 42:08
I think one of the interesting things about parenthood is that continual lesson and letting go but still being attached, especially if you give birth to your child, they're literally a part of you, the mother. And then initially, if you're nursing them, and they're just with you, in those first years, they're so dependent on you, and you kind of are in control of them, at least you have that illusion that you are, they are their own person. But you know, when they're little you dress them, and you put them to bed, and all of that little by little, they're gaining a little more control, a little more control. And then you come to those realizations of like, wow, they really are their own people, I did not just create a little mini me or a little mini my partner, they are fully their own person, and they are going to be fully themselves. And so I've got to love who he, or who she, who they are fully as themselves. That's the whole game, let them go and be fully themselves.
Anonymous 43:10
Yeah, I think that's really good advice for a lot of parents is that you really don't have control. And it's just loving them for who they really are not who we want them to be, and letting go when that doesn't happen. Or when we're disappointed.
Elizabeth 43:26
Can I just ask, like, why you were willing to be so open about this?
Anonymous 43:30
Yeah. So I feel like throughout my life of just different traumatic experiences, the only way that I've ever healed, it's really important just to kind of talk about it. And then also, I feel like for parents that maybe are going through this or that don't have a support system, just to know that like you're not alone, and that, you know, it is hard, and we do want to do the right thing. But yet we still have our emotions, and it's okay. And there's a lot of stigma behind kids that come out nowadays, and this whole transitioning period, and just transitioning in general. And I think that it's becoming more common. And there's a lot of misconception about, well, why is it becoming more common than or just people copying each other? And so I do think there's just a lot of miscommunication. But also, you know, my heart does go out to parents, because it is a hard, it's a really hard realization of knowing what is the right support, but yet also loving your child unconditionally, and making sure that they know that. So what I hope is just to bring a little awareness, little support, to know people aren't alone, and that this is just really isn't a fad. It's doesn't happen overnight, and it's not going to change, but what does really support them is the little things that their parents do, to see them in the eyes that they want to be identified as and so that's something I've learned and I hope that I can educate, the other thing that makes me so sad is all the stories of my child's friends, parents that have disowned them and that they've become either homeless, or on the streets, I just hope that I can provide a little more awareness and support for all people.
Elizabeth 45:07
I think you’re doing just that. So thank you.
Anonymous 45:10
Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate you having me and talking about this issue.
Elizabeth 45:18
I'm deeply grateful to my guest for being so open about her experiences, which as she said, she shared with hopes of educating people and potentially helping other families going through similar situations. I think much of what I learned from her can be applied more universally, even to those of us not going through that specific circumstance. Here are some of my takeaways from our conversation:
If you're interested in some resources about this topic, my guest suggested some which I put in the show notes for this episode. They’re on our website, theexperiencepodcast.net. You can also find all of our past episodes there and find out how to subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on social media. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please tell a friend about it. I'm Elizabeth Pearson Garr, thanks for joining the experience.